AW: Der DGT Centaur - Die Review
 

They are high priced, but not expensive.
(Kosten viel, sind aber nicht teuer)
Due to the fact of reliability and user friendliness.
The long term value and product support is also an important issue.
You buy a Mercedes, but the real value will be evident after 10years and 300.000km. Same as Apple computers, my first iMac is almost 12years old, but it’s still perfectly working and performs. Not sure if a cheap pc would do the same.

But this comparison is completely off topic to the Centaur device, to be fair.;)

AW: Der DGT Centaur - Die Review
 

Hallo! Ich habe den Centaur nun auch schon eine ganze Weile.
Ich nehme ihn immer gerne heraus und spiele ein paar Partien. Es ist von Vorteil, wenn der Schachcomputer sehr flach ist und nicht viel Platz braucht. Ein München Brett ist schön- aber es braucht halt Platz. Außerdem gefällt mir das Design auch ganz gut.
Nun gut, die Eröffnungen beim Freund-Modus sind etwas gewöhnungsbedürftig, vor allem das Spiel mit den Bauern. Aber es macht Spaß damit zu spielen.
Man spart sich das Stromkabel, er ist leicht und antwortet eigentlich sehr schnell. Ideal: jetzt schnell eine Partie spielen. Ich finde den Preis ganz in Ordnung. Ich finde, er ist ein gelungener Schachcomputer zum einfach drauf los spielen.
Nur der Ordnung halber: ich habe sehr viele alte Schachcomputer: Genius, Risc, Magellan, und auch neue (King).
Fazit: Das abwechselnde Spiel: einmal einen alten Mephisto mit Vancouver und dann mal den Centaur - das macht mir Spaß.
LG Leo

AW: Der DGT Centaur - Die Review
 

Well, when Apple was still using 68xxx processors, I was a big fan of Macintosh computers. They had better service, a far better and more powerful operating system and many other advantages. And it was a real graphical operating system as opposed to the Windows 95 based on DOS. The high price was somehow justified. The advantages Apple had over the old Windows computers, however, the Centaur can not show compared to other chess computers. In this respect this is not really comparable.

AW: Der DGT Centaur - Die Review
 

And despite that they are the worlds best selling products. :rolleyes:
I have both, Apple products and the Centaur. To me they are worth what I payed for them.

I always say: If I buy something for €10 and never use it, it's very expensive, If I buy something for €1000 and use it every day, it's a fair price.

AW: Der DGT Centaur - Die Review
 

And you think that comparing price setting from a computer in the 1980's and a chess computer from 2019 is comparable?
I use a lot of Apple products, iMac's, iPad's, MacBook and iPhone. They are expensive and i.m.o. overpriced, but to me they are worth it, just as the Centaur is worth its price to me. That is what I wanted to compare.

If you look neutral then there are products for half the price of Apple product and have the same capacity. I'm quite sure that members here, who say that the Centaur is much overpriced, are the owner of an overpriced iPhone. That was my point. That is measuring with two standards.

AW: Der DGT Centaur - Die Review
 

Well, I have compared the pricing of a computer of the 80s with another computer of the 80s. (Apple Mac vs. Windows). In this case, I don't think Apple was overpriced because it had many advantages over Windows computers.

When I compare the price of 2 chess computers of today, I also expect that a product with a high price has advantages over another product with a lower price (you can call me naive for that...). And I don't see this advantage for myself. If someone else sees these advantages for himself, that's OK with me. That's all I said.

By the way: I know that many people have an iPhone. I don't have one because I don't need it. And it has no advantages for me compared to other smartphones. So I'll never buy an iphone. If someone else does.... well, why not. Maybe he sees advantages in it that I don't see. I still have an old mobile, ten years old. People can call me if I am out of the house. That's all I need. I don't need a virtual world when I am out. There is an interesting real world around me.

For many it's also a prestige thing. I've never given anything to it and I still don't today. If someone needs that for his self-confidence or really has an advantage from it then be it so. I see no advantage in it for me and my self-confidence does not need an iphone cure.

AW: Der DGT Centaur - Die Review
 

Eric,
But if you compare these both "overpriced" products like the latest iPhone and the Centaur, you have to considerate that the first is a top performant product with all features equipped ‘state of the art’, that fits even for professionals, the Centaur is far away from that. It would like comparing it with a simple prepaid plastic phone without gps etc. with a luxury price segment item.
However the iPhone wants to be you best friend too, that’s why it becomes the daily rider for so many which become dependent or even addicted to.
I think this risk is not given for our best plastic friend in black & white.

AW: Der DGT Centaur - Die Review
 

There is the difference. For you a phone is a phone, for me it's my pocket computer that I need for work. Auto agenda synchronization, email, passwords, , banking, connected to my server if I have to show pictures on location, watch my house when I'm away, put on the heating at work when I have to work on a day off, etc. I can even use it as a phone.

B.t.w. I misunderstood your way of comparing.

On the other hand, I only wanted to point out that I'm sure that members who think that the Centaur is overpriced, buy products of which others will think they are overpriced. It's worth what you think it's worth. Thats all.
It was never ment to become a discussion what an iPhone is worth to me...:o

AW: Der DGT Centaur - Die Review
 

Die Zeiteinteilung des Centauren gefällt mir nicht und bietet zu wenig. Die ist schon ziemlich "unterirdisch".


Grüße
Otto

AW: Der DGT Centaur - Die Review
 

That's really a difference. As I said. If it gives you an advantage, then its worth it. For you.

Shit happens. I guess you know now, what I meant and all is fine.

I know what you wanted to point out and I got your opinion of course. That's why I said that the centaur and an iphone for example are two pairs of shoes. There are also people who buy things because they are rare or because they are expensive, for prestige, not because those things are better than others. And having an iPhone, being a member of the big Apple family, sometimes has something almost religious or sectarian about it, at least as long as the iphone doesn't have a significant advantage over a cheaper device. The same can be seen in cars, in dresses, in shoes and many other things. They are status symbols. With a chess computer with which I want to practice and improve, however, one sets - as long as it is not a collector's item - other standards. And the Centaur does not meet these standards... FOR ME. Maybe it does meet them for you. And as long as it does, it has its raison d'être.

AW: Der DGT Centaur - Die Review
 

I don't want to compare the products, only the "what is it worth" price.
On this forum I read enthousiast story's about old chess computers. A lot of them don't play on high level, yet they are still very wanted as a collectors item and well payed for. To high a price for the level of play, but for the collector worth the price.
That's what I have with my Centaur. The way of operating is unique for a modern chess computer. The way it plays against a player of my level is pure fun for me.
It's made of plastic, so what? Do you play better when the board and pieces are made of wood? I play for the game, not for the looks. I think the concept of the Centaur is brilliant for players like me.
No connection for updates? Are there any rules in chess that have been changed in the past 100 years? If it works, don't try to fix it.
All the comments of shortcomings like "It can't be connected to internet to play against other computers".... Well, I bought it to play against me.
If the Centaur isn't good enough for you, then don't buy it. The shop in the Netherlands where I bought mine told me that there is more demand than they can deliver. The reviews of buyers show that there are many more satisfied owners than disappointed ones.
What I don't understand is why it's so hard to accept for a lot of members here that there are chess players who are very happy with the Centaur.

AW: Der DGT Centaur - Die Review
 

I can understand this view very well and have no problem with it. If a player just wants to play for fun, it's certainly a good device. That's OK for me.

The problem I have with it is that I want to improve as a player, that I want to use it for training. And depending on how intensively you do that, you will sooner or later reach the limits of the device. For the serious player these limits already start with the possible time settings, which are not flexible enough. For me they start with the fact that on the one hand it is much too weak in friendly-mode, still makes too many artificially produced mistakes in the higher setting and on the other hand can't be beaten in the third and highest setting. For a sensible training the device is therefore not usable for me. Maybe for a blitz-game, also human players make big mistakes in blitz-games. You don't notice any difference with the friendly-mode in this case. As soon as it goes beyond blitz-games, the mistakes become a bit silly for me. If the device responds with a much bigger mistake (and he did that in my test games) as soon as I have made a mistake, then it is less a training partner than a loving father who wants to give his son a sense of achievement. And for me this father-son-experience is not worth 400 Euro.

AW: Der DGT Centaur - Die Review
 

I don’t see any member here who do not accept Centaur fans. Yes, he’s different, it changes and gives a fresh line. From time to time it’s fun, so that’s ok. (For me).
Price discussing is not reasonable, and won’t change anything, as far as users are willing to pay.

The real thing is, that old chess computers are completely different playing. I recently acquired a Chesscomputer from 1983 (Programmed by Nitsche) which seems to have a real soul. You even hear the electronic softly switching inside the magnetics. It’s amazing and exactly was a searched: a chess partner who plays my level, without taking me as a stupid or simulating weakness to wipe me off at the end. This low level play style (of this mm1) has nothing in common with the reduced levels of the latest millennium products and even less with the friendly Centaur.

This great looking 3kg exclusive board (wood) can be used with batteries, so no cable stuff needed. It replaced the b&w plastic toy and found his place on a table in the fireplace room in my country house, always ready to play, attractive even for visitors.

The Centaur will be used on vacation with children or relaxed in garden during long summer days , or maybe in an office waiting area.

AW: Der DGT Centaur - Die Review
 

Hartmut, thank you for confirming my opinion in your way. I said before, if it doesn't measure your standards, don't buy it. DGT says it's your chess friend, not your chess coach. I don't think it's ment for the serious (high level) player who wants to learn and improve , but for the recreational player.

AW: Der DGT Centaur - Die Review
 

Hi Nisse,
I think you misunderstood me. I didn't say that Centaur fans weren't accepted, but the Centaur itself isn't accepted as a full chess computer. Even you compare the Centaur with older chess computers with a "soul"?
Just don't compare the Centaur, because it's one of its kind.
Obviously you want a chess computer to have "looks" so you can expose it as a piece of art. For me (and I guess also for the Centaur) totally irrelevant.

You would never buy the Centaur, I would never buy a computer from the 80's and Think we both don't have problem with that.
What I ment is that some members can't understand how you can buy a Centaur if you are a serious chess player who wants to improve his skills. Well, I'm not a serious player, just recreational. Some members are so serious that they obviously can't believe that there are chess players who don't take chess that serious.

I think there are members that hardly play against the chess computer themselves, but only let their computers play against each other. Well, that's where the fun stops for me.
Please give everyone the freedom to enjoy his own fun.

AW: Der DGT Centaur - Die Review
 

Hi Eric,

You might have misunderstood me too :)

1. I own the Centaur (ok, I got a privileged price) and I have fun with it,
2. I like the variation of different play styles, so he's not the one and only.
3. Yes aesthetic aspects are important for me,
4. but in accordance with functionality - not as exposure objects
5. Mephisto Boards and modules are in some way really "pieces of art"

The best chess computer for me is the one you play with, that's why the Mephisto Exclusive has found it's place in my living room and the Millenium King (+Chesslink !) it's place in my "chess-study-room".

The friendly centaur might find his utilisation in friendly weather environment.

All these discussions are proofing that he drew already full public attention, a good strategic chess move in advantage for DGT.

AW: Der DGT Centaur - Die Review
 

Hi Nisse,

Thank you, all clear now. :top:

AW: Der DGT Centaur - Die Review
 

Hallo. Ich habe mir heute eine DGT Centaur Reisetasche erworben. Solch eine Tasche ist, so finde ich, eine gute Ergänzung zum DGT Centaur.
Die Aufbewahrung von meinen vielen Schachcomputern ist immer ein kleines Problem. Bei den Mephistos gibt es ja die Koffer,........
LG Leo

AW: Der DGT Centaur - Die Review
 

Hallo

Ich habe mir vor kurzem den Centaur zugelegt. Der King Performance war zunächst meine erste Wahl und auch diesen habe ich mittlerweile bestellt (und bekommen), aber das ist ein anderes Thema.

Nachdem ich viel über den Centaur gelesen habe (vor allem hier im Forum – danke dafür), sprach eigentlich vieles gegen einen Kauf. Aber er hat mich irgendwie gereizt. Sein schlichtes Design, die einfache Bedienung…

Mittlerweile habe ich ein paar Partien gespielt und ich bin echt zufrieden damit. Er ist leicht (ich freue mich schon auf das Frühjahr und die Terrasse), schnell spielbereit und es macht Spaß mit ihm zu spielen. Ich würde mich als fortgeschrittenen Anfänger bezeichnen. Der Centaur gibt mir das Gefühl „gut mitzuspielen“, er bietet mir gelegentlich ein taktisches Motiv und wenn ich mich etwas mehr konzentriere, zieht auch er „das Tempo an“. So ist zumindest mein Eindruck.

Ich hätte mir etwas individueller einstellbare Zeitlimits (z.B. Inkrement) und die Möglichkeit eines Exports der Partien (eventuell zur Analyse) gefreut.
Und es gab von meiner Freundin noch selbstgenähte schöne Stoffbeutel für die Figuren!

Viele Grüße
Heiko

AW: Der DGT Centaur - Die Review
 

Moin Heiko,
kann ich irgendwie nachvollziehen ... trotz aller Kritik "hat er was" ... und er ist halt komplett "anders" als alle anderen Schachcomputer ... und außerdem gilt eh "Hauptsache, Du hast Spaß" ... ;)

Grüße,
Sascha

AW: Der DGT Centaur - Die Review
 

What a lovely thought 😍
The only thing my wife ever says is " NOT ANOTHER CHESS COMPUTER, WHERE'S THAT COME FROM NOW"

Regards
Bryan

AW: Der DGT Centaur - Die Review
 

Mine asks: "where will you store this one? upon your head?"
Cheers
Eric

AW: Der DGT Centaur - Die Review
 

Gibt es eigentlich noch neue Infos zur Engine, die verwendet wurde? Oder bleibt das für immer im Dunklen?! Ich habe mal wieder mit meinem Square Off gespielt und hatte ich z. B. nicht die besten Eindrücke von dem neu beworbenen adaptiven Stil der Square Off-Engine (Stockfish).

Eines gilt aber, was auch hier öfters für den Centaur angeführt wird:

Man schaltet das Board ein, kein Kabelsalat (Bluettooth +Akku) und es geht sofort los. Natürlich ist der Platzbedarf deutlich größer als beim Centaur.

AW: Der DGT Centaur - Die Review
 

Ja, das Thema ist eigentlich bekannt und schon lange geklärt. Als Engine findet sich die letzte Entwicklungsversion von Stockfish 8 "Stockfish 310118". Stockfish 9 erschien am 01.02.2018.

AW: Der DGT Centaur - Die Review
 

d. h. mit dieser Version könnte man unter anderer GUI das Spielverhalten des Centaur "nachbilden"?!

In einem anderen (englischsprachigen) Forum gibt es einen recht neuen Thread zu Stockfish-Clones wie "Honey X5i" und "Crystal-Honey X5i".
Das hört sich wirklich nach Centaur-Stil an.

Mit Chesslink und Hiarcs-Explorer bzw. auch unter Android sollte das doch für das Millennium-Brett kein größeres Problem darstellen, oder?!