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  #11  
Alt 14.08.2018, 14:20
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 Zitat von applechess Beitrag anzeigen
Hi Stefan
Even against a Conny 3.6 are exact moves necessary to win. And as soon
as you have complicated positions on the board it's not an easy task to
find the best moves on level Aktivschach.
Regards
Kurt
Kurt no it isn't easy in a tactical struggle to keep the pace. Computers are tactic maniacs compared to humans.
Of course ELO could compensate but mine is not high enough to battle with the Conny @ tactic level. I presume you need 2000+ to try your chances there.
Still I underestimated the Conny in this game (in allowing Qa5 and Kf1) and suffered hard from it lateron. All games in here are played at Tournament conditions ( Level 7)
as my level dramatically falls if I'd go for quicker play. In real life chess , I already suffer from a 2nd (suddendeath) timecontrol like e.g. 15 or 30 minutes.

Geändert von StefanT (15.08.2018 um 13:42 Uhr)
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  #12  
Alt 14.08.2018, 14:23
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Nach den 1 - 0 konnte es nicht sein es bleib dabei.
Diese partie war extra Vorsicht, auf viele kleine Besserungen habe ich versichtet; konnte jedoch im Turmendspiel den Gewinn zu Hause bringen !

Ruckstand Stefan (Fide 1815/N 1837) - vs - Conny 3.6 Mhz (AktivSchach 1750) 6 - 4
https://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=211842



[Event "08/2018 R2"]
[Site "b"]
[Date "2018.08.13"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Novag Constellation, 3.6 Mhz"]
[Black "Timmermans Stefan"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "D60"]
[WhiteElo "1750"]
[BlackElo "1837"]
[Annotator ",T"]
[PlyCount "144"]

1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 e6 3. c4 Nf6 4. Nc3 Be7 5. Bg5 (5. Bf4
O-O 6. e3 Nbd7) 5... O-O 6. e3 h6 7. Bh4 {Classic Queensgambit} b6 {Lasker is w
ith 8. Ne4 but nowadays and since the 2 K's met, the Tartakower Defence became
fameous since Kasparov began to use it, new novelties were added to the
repertoire. The Tartakower became very fashionable since then !} 8. Bd3 Nbd7 (
8... Bb7 9. O-O Nbd7 10. Qe2 c5 {The Mainline}) 9. cxd5 Nxd5 {Uncommon in this
position, could potentially flatten the game with 2 minor piece exchanges.
Still playing black this is not too bad} (9... exd5 10. O-O Bb7 11. Rc1 c5) 10.
Bxe7 (10. Bxe7 Qxe7 11. Nxd5 exd5 12. O-O {With equal chances}) (10. e4 $4 Nxc3
11. Bxe7 Nxd1 12. Bxd8 Nxb2 $19) 10... Qxe7 11. O-O c5 {Puts pressure on d4
and initiate a pawn majority attack on the queenside with a pushback of the
Knight on c3} 12. Qc2 $2 Bb7 (12... Nb4 13. Qb1 Nxd3 14. Qxd3 cxd4 15. Nxd4 Nc5
$15 {and black stands better}) 13. Qe2 {
Corrects his error , but now e4 with the possible Nf4 is not particulary good}
Rfc8 14. Rfc1 a6 {a bit slow but white is going nowhere} 15. h3 b5 {
Blacks plan is quit obvious, either c4 or b4 and mobilise all on the queenside.
} 16. e4 {
The Conny decides to strike back in the centre on the vulnerable Knight} Nf4
17. Qe3 Nxd3 (17... cxd4 18. Nxd4 Nxd3 19. Qxd3 Nc5 $17 {
and white is already into some problems}) 18. Qxd3 c4 {
Always hard to assess , push pawn c or pawn b} (18... Rd8 $1) (18... b4 19. Ne2
c4 20. Qe3 Nb6 $15) 19. Qe2 Nf6 {Lacks sharpness , the chessengine estimates
that the small edge is given back to a more equalised position} (19... b4 20.
Nd1 a5 $11) 20. a3 Rab8 21. Ne5 {A bit too optimistic} Qd8 {Sets pressure on
d4 now that the Knight moved to e5, black has a small edge again = +} 22. Qe3
a5 (22... Qb6 {Would have been better}) 23. f3 {
Securing e4 to free up his options} (23. Nxb5 Bxe4 24. a4 $11) 23... Ba8 {
Bc6 or Ba6 would have been better, now white has a strong reply (a4) that
demolishes what black has built sofar} 24. Rc2 $2 (24. a4 $1 b4 (24... bxa4 25.
Nxa4 Rb4 $14) 25. Nb5 {and c4 falls}) 24... Nd7 {
The Knight on e5 controls c4 and refrains black b4 reply.} 25. Qf4 {
Threatens Qxf7} Nxe5 26. Qxe5 Qc7 $6 (26... Bc6 27. Ne2 Qb6 $15) 27. Qxc7 Rxc7
28. Rac1 $6 (28. a4 $16) 28... Rd7 $11 {The game is superflat now.} 29. a4 bxa4
(29... b4 $2 30. Nb5 f5 31. exf5 Bd5 32. fxe6 Bxe6 33. Re2 $14) 30. Nxa4 Bc6
31. Rxc4 Bxa4 32. Rxa4 Rxb2 33. Rc8+ Kh7 34. Ra8 $2 {
A critical mistake , black now had R7c7} Rd2 $2 (34... Rc7 $1 $19 35. R8xa5
Rcc2 36. d5 Rxg2+ 37. Kh1 Rh2+ 38. Kg1 Rhg2+ $19 {I don't see how it wins, but
for the engine clearly favours black , claim it is actually winning.}) 35.
R8xa5 R2xd4 36. Rxd4 Rxd4 37. Ra2 g5 38. Kf2 Kg6 39. Rc2 f6 40. Ke3 (40. Rc6
Rd2+ 41. Ke3 Rxg2 42. Rxe6 Kf7 43. Rb6 $11) 40... Rd6 41. Rc8 Ra6 42. Rc2 f5
43. Kd4 Kf6 44. e5+ Kg6 {The critical mistake} 45. Kc5 $2 (45. g3) (45. g4)
45... f4 $1 $17 {Gives way to Kf5 with attack on the pushed pawn on e5 , black
only needs to construct the attack on e3 , as to eliminate the defense of
whites rook on e2} 46. Kb5 Ra3 47. Re2 {Does not help anymore} Re3 48. Rd2
Rxe5+ 49. Kc4 h5 (49... Kh5 $19 {and black has an easy win}) 50. Rc2 Kf5 51.
Kd3 g4 52. fxg4+ hxg4 53. hxg4+ (53. h4 g3 $19) 53... Kxg4 54. Kd4 Re3 55. Rc7
e5+ 56. Kd5 Kg3 57. Rg7+ Kf2 58. Rg5 e4 (58... Rg3 {wins immediately !}) 59.
Rg7 Re1 (59... Rg3 {wins immediately !} 60. Rxg3 $2 fxg3 61. Kxe4 Kxg2 $19) 60.
Ke5 Ke3 (60... f3 {wins immediately !}) 61. Re7 f3 62. gxf3 exf3 63. Kd5+ Kf2
64. Rf7 Kg2 65. Rg7+ Kf1 66. Kd4 f2 67. Kd3 Re8 68. Kd2 Rh8 69. Kd3 Rh2 70. Kd2
Rg2 71. Rf7 Kg1 72. Ke3 f1=Q 0-1

Geändert von StefanT (14.08.2018 um 14:31 Uhr)
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  #13  
Alt 14.08.2018, 14:35
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applechess applechess ist gerade online
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 Zitat von StefanT Beitrag anzeigen
Nach den 1 - 0 konnte es nicht sein es bleib dabei.
Diese partie war extra Vorsicht, auf viele kleine Besserungen habe ich versichtet; konnte jedoch im Turmendspiel den Gewinn zu Hause bringen !

Ruckstand Stefan (Fide 1813/N 1837) - vs - Conny 3.6 Mhz (AktivSchach 1750) 6 - 4
Hi Stefan
As mentioned by you, the move 45.Kc5?? was a terrible
mistake. The endgame is indeed the weakest phase of these
old computer programs. It's often possible to win endgames
that are dead draw.
Kurt
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Folgender Benutzer sagt Danke zu applechess für den nützlichen Beitrag:
Wolfgang2 (15.08.2018)
  #14  
Alt 15.08.2018, 13:23
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StefanT StefanT ist offline
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 Zitat von applechess Beitrag anzeigen
Hi Stefan
As mentioned by you, the move 45.Kc5?? was a terrible
mistake. The endgame is indeed the weakest phase of these
old computer programs. It's often possible to win endgames
that are dead draw.
Kurt
In general you are right, though in this case he missed a pure 8 ply combination. I believe it was a Horizon problem. He didn't scan the whole 8 ply depth and missed this variation.
It is to me not a pure endgame mistake which you typically recognise in an voluntary piece exchange into a lost endgame.
An 8 bit program at no more then 4Mhz typically considers 7 up to 8 ply @ tournament play (3 minutes a move) The progam uses the shannon A Strategy, meaning he will calculate the whole tree.
This takes time as the possibilities are on average x40 for every ply added.

This is also a reason why I have such a bad score against the Turbostar (5 to 10%) . I believe the Turbostar 432 KSO has a A & B-strategy program and is a real frustration for me. It scans the tree for a few ply (3 to 4 A Strategy) and then makes a few deep dive considerations on the most promising variations like humans do (B-Stategy) in an attempt to eliminate the calculations of stupid/non-promising move considerations.
Of course a sacrifice combination can be quickly overlooked (like a queen sacrifice to mate) as initially catalogued unpromising , therefore the whole variation may be quickly dropped.
Either choice was a programmer choice back in the 70'ies , 80'ies and early 90'ies.

https://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/Type+A+Strategy
https://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/Type+B+Strategy

Geändert von StefanT (15.08.2018 um 13:51 Uhr)
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Folgender Benutzer sagt Danke zu StefanT für den nützlichen Beitrag:
applechess (15.08.2018)
  #15  
Alt 15.08.2018, 13:44
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 Zitat von StefanT Beitrag anzeigen
In general you are right, though in this case he missed an pure 8 ply combination. I believe it was a Horizon problem. He didn't scan the whole 8 play depth and missed this variation.
It is to me not a pure endgame mistake which you typically recognise in an voluntary piece exchange into a lost endgame.
An 8 bit program at no more then 4Mhz typically considers 7 up to 8 ply. The progam uses the shannon A Strategy, meaning he will calculate the whole tree.
This is also a reason why I have such a bad score against the Turbostar (5 to 10%) . I believe the Turbostar 432 KSO has a B-strategy program and is a real frustration for me. It scans the tree for a few ply (3 to 4) and then makes a few deep dive considerations on the most promising variations like humans do.

https://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/Type+A+Strategy
https://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/Type+B+Strategy
Hi Stefan

You are a happy man ... whereas I am frustrated having given
away my beloved Saitek Turbostar 432 KSO

Kurt
Mit Zitat antworten
  #16  
Alt 19.08.2018, 19:51
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StefanT StefanT ist offline
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Kurt hatte ich auch getan und Bedauert !
End 80er Jahre hatte mein Vater diese schachcomputer in Maastricht gekauft genauso wie der Conny 2.0 Mhz
Das war damals doch wirklich ein tolles Geschenk von mein Vater und Mutti.

Hier ein Spiel gegen mein Angstgegner.
Es wird eine Partie Tartakower Eco D58
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessopening?eco=D58

Es gab eine gewisse streit mit doch ein paar schöne Züge von dem TS 432.
Jedoch machte ich diesmal im Turmendspiel ein fehler mit 48 ... Ta3 ? aber glücklich nicht so schlimm das es zum verlust führte.




[Event "Home August 2018"]
[Site "b"]
[Date "2018.08.19"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Turbostar 432 KSO, NB3."]
[Black "Timmermans, Stefan"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "D58"]
[WhiteElo "1775"]
[BlackElo "1837"]
[Annotator ",T"]
[PlyCount "166"]

1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Be7 5. e3 O-O 6.
Nf3 h6 7. Bh4 b6 8. Be2 Nbd7 {More often Bb7 is played} 9. cxd5 Nxd5 {
Always had a preference to recapture with the Knight, despite the potential e4
push, as now the diagonal a8-h1 is better.} (9... exd5 10. O-O Bb7 11. Rc1 c5)
10. Bxe7 Qxe7 11. Nxd5 exd5 12. Rc1 Qb4+ (12... Nf6 13. Qc2 c6 14. Qxc6 $4 Bd7
15. Qc2 Rfc8 16. Qd1 Qb4+ $1 $19) 13. Qd2 Qxd2+ 14. Nxd2 c5 15. O-O (15. Bb5
Rb8 $14) 15... a6 16. dxc5 bxc5 $6 (16... Nxc5 {The best}) 17. e4 {
This move made me worry a lot} (17. Rfd1 $16 Rb8) 17... Re8 18. Bf3 {I'm having
difficulties in maintaining the stretched pawns and to develop my bishop} d4 (
18... Rb8 19. exd5 (19. b3 d4 20. Bg4 Nf6 21. Bxc8 Rexc8 $14) 19... Rxb2 20.
Ne4 Rxa2 {Almost equal}) 19. Nc4 {I liked this move of the Turbostar !} Rb8 20.
Nd6 Rd8 21. Bg4 Kf8 22. b4 $1 {A beautifull move if you ask me. I'm impressed.}
Nf6 (22... Ne5 {Was a good option.} 23. Nxc8 Nxg4 24. Na7 Rb7 25. Nc6 Rc8 26.
Rxc5 $11 Rxb4) (22... cxb4 $4 23. Nxc8 $18) 23. Bxc8 (23. Nxc8 Nxg4 24. Na7 Rb7
25. Nc6 Rc8 26. Rxc5 Rxb4 $11) 23... Rxd6 24. bxc5 (24. e5 Rc6 25. Bf5 g6 $11)
24... Rc6 25. Bf5 g6 26. e5 gxf5 27. exf6 Rxf6 28. Rcd1 (28. Rfd1 Rd8 $11)
28... Rc8 29. Rxd4 Rxc5 30. Rd7 Re6 31. Rd2 Rce5 32. g3 f4 $1 33. gxf4 Re4 34.
f5 Rf6 35. Rd8+ Kg7 36. Rd5 Rf4 37. Re1 R4xf5 38. Rxf5 Rxf5 39. Kg2 {
Position is nearly symmectrical} Ra5 40. Re2 Ra3 41. f3 Kg6 42. Kg3 Kg5 43. Rc2
Ra4 44. Rb2 h5 45. Rg2 Kf5 46. h4 Ra3 47. Rd2 Re3 48. a4 Ra3 $2 {What an error}
49. Rd5+ Kg6 50. Ra5 Ra1 51. Rxa6+ f6 52. Ra7 Rg1+ 53. Kh3 Rh1+ 54. Kg3 Rg1+
55. Kh2 Ra1 56. Ra6 Ra2+ 57. Kh3 Ra1 58. Ra5 Rh1+ 59. Kg3 Rg1+ 60. Kh2 Ra1 61.
Kg2 Ra2+ 62. Kg3 Ra1 63. Ra6 Rg1+ 64. Kh2 Ra1 65. Ra5 Ra2+ 66. Kg3 Ra1 67. Ra8
Kf5 68. Rh8 Kg6 69. Rg8+ Kh7 70. Ra8 Rg1+ 71. Kf4 Rh1 72. Kf5 $14 {
White has something ?} Rxh4 73. Kxf6 Rf4+ 74. Kg5 Rxf3 75. Ra7+ Kg8 76. Kxh5
Kf8 77. Kg6 Ke8 78. a5 Kd8 79. a6 Kc8 80. Rg7 Rg3+ 81. Kf6 Rxg7 82. Kxg7 Kb8
83. Kf7 Ka7 1/2-1/2

Geändert von StefanT (23.08.2018 um 14:42 Uhr)
Mit Zitat antworten
Folgender Benutzer sagt Danke zu StefanT für den nützlichen Beitrag:
Egbert (19.08.2018)
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