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Alt 10.06.2024, 11:46
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Frage Elo game levels

Hi,

question is: what are the chess computers featuring ability to set the level of play thru Elo reference?

e.g. Mephisto Milano (and Nigel Short) offers "Elo active" levels ranging from 1200 to 2000, or Millennium the King offers 9 easy levels ranging from 1000 to 2050.

Any other computer?
Thanks,
Tibono
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  #2  
Alt 11.06.2024, 12:27
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AW: Elo game levels

Hi,

in my collection I didn't found any other items with Elo levels that you named before - so this feature is very rare

There are many UCI-engines with that feature that I use sometimes, also in a game against chess computers to align them to an equel level. Some UCI-engines do it well, others in a bad manner (e.g. loosing figures and then play strong to compensate it).

To align chess computers to my level or to known Elo levels (active ot tournament Elo list) I use limiting of of the calculation depth in half moves - that is provided by several chess computers. In principle it should be possible to make a sheet with Elo-ranges and the corresponding depth in half moves that chess computers reach in this Elo range.

Regards
Achim
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Tibono (11.06.2024)
  #3  
Alt 11.06.2024, 23:46
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AW: Elo game levels

Hi Achim, hello dear all,

thanks for the feedback; indeed not a common feature for chess computers (that's an understatement ).

Maybe worth sharing my intention: yes, many UCI engines enable "UCI_LimitStrength" coupled with "UCI_Elo" options. Without including versions or close clones, I currently have 37 of these in my engines collection.
Large data is publicly available about peak strength / ranking of engines under various conditions, but close to none about the consistency of Elo-levels.

Few engines benefit from a good reputation in this area (e.g. Shredder and HIARCS); is this deserved? and what about the others? I want to run some tests; even if, maybe, this will only scratch the surface.

I selected 9 engines I consider worth testing: Arasan, Chiron, HIARCS, Honey X5i, Komodo Dragon, Maia, Shredder, Stockfish and Wasp.

I decided to use the latest version (excluding dev ones) I have for each, resulting in: Arasan 24.2.1, Chiron 5, HIARCS 15.3.1, Komodo Dragon 3.3, Shredder 13, Stockfish 16.1 and Wasp 7.0 - except for:

- Honey X5i by Michael Byrne which is the first (AFAIK) Stockfish derivative including adaptative level feature (dates from 2019); which is the reason why I saved this engine in my collection,
- Maia the famous human-games-based nets for Leela using a specific implementation of my own (no instant play nor depth-based, compliant with clock setting).

As a standard the Elo-levels are from 1000 to 2000 step 200, where available, thus 6 levels for each engine. Restrictions are Wasp (min 1500, so using 3 levels 1600, 1800, 2000) and Maia (nets ranging from 1100 to 1900, so using 4 levels 1200, 1400, 1600, 1800).

To complete the picture, I add two plus one chess computers:
- Nigel Short (Milano v2) with 5 Elo Active levels (min is 1200, max is 2000)
- the King Performance with 3 easy levels (0, 4, 7 thus 1000, 1600, 1950)
- Fidelity Excellence 3Mhz without Elo levels of course, as a reference for later EloStat normalization. Using level 4 (30 secs/move on average) it scores 1798 according to the current Wiki-Elo-List for active chess.

The Swiss tournament starts with the 56 participants sorted by theoretical strength; then inside each Elo ranking (1000, 1200, 1600...) the position is random for round 1. Two games played each round (alternate colors), pace set to avg 30s/move or equivalent.

6 rounds (336 games) should be required as a minimum; I would be more than happy if I can reach 10 rounds thus 20 games per participant (and 560 total games). Let's see...

Maybe after that I shall select a couple of best engines and run Spacious Mind's tests for confirmation of consistency?

I apologize for the lengthy post...
MfG
Eric
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kamoj (12.06.2024)
  #4  
Alt 12.06.2024, 00:06
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AW: Elo game levels

Hi Eric,

a few other Mephistos also have ELO levels: Academy, RISC, RISC II and Polgar.
(you can find all at the beginning of 'Levels.txt' in the folder 'level')

Regards,
Franz
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Tibono (12.06.2024)
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Alt 12.06.2024, 00:25
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Re: Elo game levels

Hi Eric

You could also pick a couple of Chessmaster either 8K/9K/10K/11K they have personalities starting from zero upwards.

Rebel has Novice setting but it does not say how strong.

Regards
Nick
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Tibono (12.06.2024)
  #6  
Alt 12.06.2024, 07:02
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AW: Re: Elo game levels

 Zitat von spacious_mind Beitrag anzeigen
You could also pick a couple of Chessmaster either 8K/9K/10K/11K they have personalities starting from zero upwards.
Thanks Nick, it was worth considering. Well, I don't include Chessmaster as personalities also bring style of play variety, it is somewhat out of my scope (yet great for fun play!). Creating custom personalities, e.g. using balanced settings, would not be that conclusive, I fear. And to be honnest I am no advanced user of the Chessmaster series...
KR,
Eric
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  #7  
Alt 12.06.2024, 07:17
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AW: Elo game levels

 Zitat von fhub Beitrag anzeigen
a few other Mephistos also have ELO levels: Academy, RISC, RISC II and Polgar.
(you can find all at the beginning of 'Levels.txt' in the folder 'level')
Great, thank you Franz. Academy ranges 1000-2000, so a nice one to add with 6 levels (1000, 1200, 1400, 1600, 1800 and 2000) unlike the Milano without 1000 setting (enabled as input, but 1200 being substituted).
Polgar offers the same range as Milano/Nigel Short and could be sort of a duplicate as far as Elo testing is concerned; same for RISC II with regards to RISC.
But I shall include RISC which Elo-active levels range from 1700 to 2200, thus adding 2 participants (1800 & 2000).

56+6+2=64, a nice number of participants for my Swiss tournament!
MfG,
Eric
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