Schachcomputer.info Community

Zurück   Schachcomputer.info Community > Schachcomputer / Chess Computer: > Technische Fragen und Probleme / Tuning


Antwort
 
Themen-Optionen Ansicht

  #1  
Alt 25.04.2023, 18:24
Tibono Tibono ist offline
TASC R30
 
Registriert seit: 22.05.2018
Ort: Frankreich
Alter: 62
Land:
Beiträge: 458
Abgegebene Danke: 2.141
Erhielt 1.108 Danke für 362 Beiträge
Aktivitäten Langlebigkeit
7/20 6/20
Heute Beiträge
1/3 ssssss458
Novag Constellation Expert with Printer required

Hello,

I please need kind support from someone owning a Novag Constellation Expert and the Novag printer.

I would like to run the Khmelnitsky test, using the emulator in debug mode, as a workaround for the lack of display.

For this I need to spot the memory position where the computed score is stored, which is far from easy (up to now, I failed).
I assume it would be helpful to have some samples of positions (out of book!) with the associated score, this can be done using the printer (option: Set Level + Print Evaluation). The positions can be setup and quite simple ones, no need for many pieces.

This would also require a static score (no pondering) which I guess can be achieved using training levels, as they stop the search once the selected depth is reached (option: Set Level + Training Level). Any low depth level would be good enough for the purpose. Such a depth level is as well expected to be independant from the CPU speed.

I can't commit I can achieve my goal, as the score can be stored using specific encoding, but worth a try, isn't it?
Thanks & regards,
Eric
Mit Zitat antworten
  #2  
Alt 08.05.2023, 23:47
Benutzerbild von Mychess
Mychess Mychess ist offline
Saitek Leonardo
 
Registriert seit: 07.03.2009
Beiträge: 88
Abgegebene Danke: 151
Erhielt 126 Danke für 70 Beiträge
Aktivitäten Langlebigkeit
5/20 16/20
Heute Beiträge
1/3 sssssss88
Re: Novag Constellation Expert with Printer required

Hello Tibono,

You are not alone ;-)

White : King D2
Black : King D5 Rook D6
Level 4


1 D2-E3 D5-E5
- 4,57 4,05
I RESIGN
00:02:02 00:01:28
2 E3-F3 D6-D3
- 4,68 4,28
3 F3-G4 D3-C3
- 4,61 4,32
4 G4-G5 C3-G3
- 4,71 4,70
5 G5-H4 E5-F4
- 4,83 4,82
6 H4-H5 G3-G5
- 4,59 4,86
7 H5-H6 F4-F5
- 4,82 4,80
8 H6-H7 G5-G6
- 4,64 97,00
9 H7-H8 F5-F6
- 4,67 98,00
10 H8-H7 F6-F7
- 4,55 99,00
11 H7-H8 G6-H6
-99,00 0,00
CHECK MATE

Cordially.
Mit Zitat antworten
Folgende 2 Benutzer sagen Danke zu Mychess für den nützlichen Beitrag:
kamoj (16.05.2023), Tibono (09.05.2023)
  #3  
Alt 14.05.2023, 19:57
Tibono Tibono ist offline
TASC R30
 
Registriert seit: 22.05.2018
Ort: Frankreich
Alter: 62
Land:
Beiträge: 458
Abgegebene Danke: 2.141
Erhielt 1.108 Danke für 362 Beiträge
Aktivitäten Langlebigkeit
7/20 6/20
Heute Beiträge
1/3 ssssss458
AW: Novag Constellation Expert with Printer required

Thanks a lot Mychess.

I worked hard (a dozen hours ), but achieved spotting the RAM location and encoding for the score.

The score is located at &h0222 and &h0223 of the maincpu memory.
&h0223 is the heavy byte of the score word.

The heavy bit of the heavy byte acts as the sign (1=positive score, 0=negative score). The score is always the computer's one.

To convert the hex word into a decimal value:
- add &h8000 to the hex score which is concat RAM(&h0223);RAM(&h0222)
(you can get the same result with Xor'ing the score and &h8000)
- convert the above result into decimal
- divide this decimal value by 256, you got it!

examples from Mychess' data
move 2. ... D6-D3 RAM(&h0222)=48, RAM(&h0223)=84
score is &h8448
+ &h8000 = &h0448 = 1096
1096 / 256 = 4,28

move 4. G4-G5 RAM(&h0222)=4A, RAM(&h0223)=7B
score is &h7B4A
+ &h8000 = &hFB4A = -1206
-1206 / 256 = -4,71

Beware the score is computed continuously, this means you need to use the latest value displayed just before the move is announced, as this triggers a new computation (the pondering phase starts).

Worth pointing out: the printed value (using the printer, I mean) is truncated after the second decimal (not rounded).

The formula can easily be entered in a worksheet in order to provide the decimal score from the two bytes input.

Specific values are used to announce "mate in" (based on distance to mate, in half-moves)
8. ... G5-G6 score is &hF800 (printed as 97) = mate in 3
9. ... F5-F6 score is &hFA00 (printed as 98) = mate in 2
10. ... F6-F7 score is &hFC00 (printed as 99) = mate in 1
11. ... G6-H6++ score is &h0001 (printed as checkmate)

Now I can run the Khmelnitsky test!

A guide on how to get the RAM values:
- run MessExtra.exe from the MessExtra sub-directory (don't use CB-Emu.exe from the parent directory)
- from the GUI, open the Properties menu for the Novag Constellation Expert device
- on the Debug tab, enable Activate Integrated Debugger
- run the device as usual, an additional "Debug" window should appear
- use the Debug menu to run the emulation (or F5 from the Debug window)
- use the Debug menu to open a new memory window (or Ctrl-M from the Debug window). You may either let the default drop-down memory area (named Rockwell R65C02 ':maincpu' program space memory) or select memory/:maincpu/0/00000000-0000ffff. The data we are interested in is present in both options, at the very same offset.
- input 222 in the top/left blank area, and hit enter. This will shift the display to the RAM address we want to observe. You can reduce the window size, as only a couple of bytes are useful on display.

Have fun!
MfG,
Eric
Mit Zitat antworten
Folgende 3 Benutzer sagen Danke zu Tibono für den nützlichen Beitrag:
kamoj (16.05.2023), mclane (14.05.2023), Mychess (15.05.2023)
  #4  
Alt 15.05.2023, 00:12
Benutzerbild von Mychess
Mychess Mychess ist offline
Saitek Leonardo
 
Registriert seit: 07.03.2009
Beiträge: 88
Abgegebene Danke: 151
Erhielt 126 Danke für 70 Beiträge
Aktivitäten Langlebigkeit
5/20 16/20
Heute Beiträge
1/3 sssssss88
Re: Novag Constellation Expert with Printer required

Hello Tibono,

Me too ... (ie I also worked hard).

However, I simulated a printer always ready, and use the evaluation printer option.

Then I put a viewpoint @b62
Code:
wp b62:maincpu,1,r,b@(b5f)!=0,{printf "%02x %02x %02x %02x %02x %02x %02x %02x %02x %02x %02x %02x %02x %02x %02x %02x",
 b@(b53),b@(b54),b@(b55),b@(b56),b@(b57),b@(b58),b@(b59),b@(b5a),b@(b5b),b@(b5c),b@(b5d),b@(b5e),b@(b5f),b@(b60),
b@(b61),b@(b62);g}

And after a filter (uniq), I have from the console: 

00 00 00 26 19 1A 23 16 00 00 13 1C 12 14 1B 00
08 08 27 08 0A 27 08 08 00 08 08 27 08 08 27 08
00 09 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 15 0D 04 16 0D 00
00 00 04 00 0C 28 0E 09 00 00 00 0C 28 0A 0D 00
00 0A 00 16 0B 04 17 0B 00 00 15 0E 04 15 0B 00
00 00 04 00 0C 28 0E 11 00 00 00 0C 28 0A 10 00
00 0B 00 17 0B 04 18 0C 00 00 15 0B 04 14 0B 00
00 00 04 00 0C 28 0E 09 00 00 00 0C 28 0E 08 00
00 0C 00 18 0C 04 18 0D 00 00 14 0B 04 18 0B 00
00 00 04 00 0C 28 0F 09 00 00 00 0C 28 0F 0D 00
00 0D 00 18 0D 04 19 0C 00 00 16 0D 04 17 0C 00
00 00 04 00 0C 28 10 0B 00 00 00 0C 28 10 0A 00
00 0E 00 19 0C 04 19 0D 00 00 17 0C 04 17 0D 00
00 00 04 00 0C 28 0D 11 00 00 00 0C 28 10 0E 00
00 0F 00 19 0D 04 19 0E 00 00 18 0B 04 18 0E 00
00 00 04 11 0E 28 08 08 00 00 11 0E 28 08 08 00
00 10 00 19 0E 04 19 0F 00 00 17 0D 04 17 0E 00
00 00 04 11 0E 28 08 08 00 00 11 0F 28 08 08 00
00 11 00 19 0F 04 19 10 00 00 18 0E 04 19 0E 00
00 00 04 00 0C 28 0E 0C 00 00 11 10 28 08 08 00
09 08 00 19 10 04 18 10 00 00 19 0E 04 19 0D 00
00 00 04 00 0C 28 0C 0A 00 00 11 11 28 08 08 00
09 09 00 18 10 04 17 10 00 00 19 0D 04 19 10 00
00 00 04 11 11 28 08 08 00 00 00 08 28 08 08 00
00 00 00 14 19 16 14 1B 00 00 1D 12 23 16 00 00
08 08 27 09 0A 27 0B 0F 00 08 08 27 09 08 27 0C

Hum, not clear ?
Then the decoder in action :


00 00 00 26 19 1A 23 16 00 00 13 1C 12 14 1B 00   WHITE  BLACK     
08 08 27 08 0A 27 08 08 00 08 08 27 08 08 27 08   00:02:00 00:02:00
00 09 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 15 0D 04 16 0D 00   1        D5-E5   
00 00 04 00 0C 28 0E 09 00 00 00 0C 28 0A 0D 00   - 4,61   4,25    
00 0A 00 16 0B 04 17 0B 00 00 15 0E 04 15 0B 00   2 E3-F3  D6-D3   
00 00 04 00 0C 28 0E 11 00 00 00 0C 28 0A 10 00   - 4,69   4,28    
00 0B 00 17 0B 04 18 0C 00 00 15 0B 04 14 0B 00   3 F3-G4  D3-C3   
00 00 04 00 0C 28 0E 09 00 00 00 0C 28 0E 08 00   - 4,61   4,60    
00 0C 00 18 0C 04 18 0D 00 00 14 0B 04 18 0B 00   4 G4-G5  C3-G3   
00 00 04 00 0C 28 0F 09 00 00 00 0C 28 0F 0D 00   - 4,71   4,75    
00 0D 00 18 0D 04 19 0C 00 00 16 0D 04 17 0C 00   5 G5-H4  E5-F4   
00 00 04 00 0C 28 10 0B 00 00 00 0C 28 10 0A 00   - 4,83   4,82    
00 0E 00 19 0C 04 19 0D 00 00 17 0C 04 17 0D 00   6 H4-H5  F4-F5   
00 00 04 00 0C 28 0D 11 00 00 00 0C 28 10 0E 00   - 4,59   4,86    
00 0F 00 19 0D 04 19 0E 00 00 18 0B 04 18 0E 00   7 H5-H6  G3-G6   
00 00 04 11 0E 28 08 08 00 00 11 0E 28 08 08 00   -96,00  96,00    
00 10 00 19 0E 04 19 0F 00 00 17 0D 04 17 0E 00   8 H6-H7  F5-F6   
00 00 04 11 0E 28 08 08 00 00 11 0F 28 08 08 00   -96,00  97,00    
00 11 00 19 0F 04 19 10 00 00 18 0E 04 19 0E 00   9 H7-H8  G6-H6   
00 00 04 00 0C 28 0E 0C 00 00 11 10 28 08 08 00   - 4,64  98,00    
09 08 00 19 10 04 18 10 00 00 19 0E 04 19 0D 00  10 H8-G8  H6-H5   
00 00 04 00 0C 28 0C 0A 00 00 11 11 28 08 08 00   - 4,42  99,00    
09 09 00 18 10 04 17 10 00 00 19 0D 04 19 10 00  11 G8-F8  H5-H8   
00 00 04 11 11 28 08 08 00 00 00 08 28 08 08 00   -99,00   0,00    
00 00 00 14 19 16 14 1B 00 00 1D 12 23 16 00 00  CHECK  MATE       
08 08 27 09 0A 27 0B 0F 00 08 08 27 09 08 27 0C  00:12:37 00:12:37 

And also :

DCCE : 00 00 00 14 19 16 14 1B 00 00 1D 12 23 16 00 00     CHECK  MATE             
DCDE : 00 00 0D 08 00 1D 08 25 16 00 1C 1A 1D 1A 23 00    50 M0VE LIMIT            
DCEE : 00 0B 21 15 00 21 16 1F 23 1A 23 1A 08 1E 00 00    3RD REPTITI0N        
DCFE : 00 1A 1E 22 24 17 00 1D 12 23 16 21 1A 12 1C 00    INSUF MATERIAL       
DD0E : 00 00 00 00 1A 00 21 16 22 1A 18 1E 00 00 00 00      I RESIGN           
DD1E : 00 00 00 26 19 1A 23 16 00 00 13 1C 12 14 1B 00     WHITE  BLACK        
DD2E : 00 00 00 05 06 00 15 21 12 26 00 05 06 00 00 00     1/2 DRAW 1/2        
DD3E : 00 00 00 00 00 00 26 19 1A 23 16 00 00 00 00 00        WHITE            
DD4E : 00 00 00 00 00 00 13 1C 12 14 1B 00 00 00 00 00        BLACK            
DD5E : 00 00 00 22 23 12 1C 16 00 1D 12 23 16 00 00 00     STALE MATE
Cordially.

Geändert von Mychess (15.05.2023 um 00:33 Uhr) Grund: mistake
Mit Zitat antworten
Folgende 3 Benutzer sagen Danke zu Mychess für den nützlichen Beitrag:
kamoj (16.05.2023), mclane (15.05.2023), Tibono (15.05.2023)
  #5  
Alt 15.05.2023, 13:20
Tibono Tibono ist offline
TASC R30
 
Registriert seit: 22.05.2018
Ort: Frankreich
Alter: 62
Land:
Beiträge: 458
Abgegebene Danke: 2.141
Erhielt 1.108 Danke für 362 Beiträge
Aktivitäten Langlebigkeit
7/20 6/20
Heute Beiträge
1/3 ssssss458
AW: Novag Constellation Expert with Printer required

 Zitat von Tibono Beitrag anzeigen
The score is located at &h0222 and &h0223 of the maincpu memory.
By the way, the same trick applies to the Super Constellation, the score location being slightly different: &h022F and &h0230.
Grüße,
Eric
Mit Zitat antworten
Folgende 2 Benutzer sagen Danke zu Tibono für den nützlichen Beitrag:
kamoj (16.05.2023), Mychess (16.05.2023)
  #6  
Alt 16.05.2023, 23:09
Benutzerbild von Mychess
Mychess Mychess ist offline
Saitek Leonardo
 
Registriert seit: 07.03.2009
Beiträge: 88
Abgegebene Danke: 151
Erhielt 126 Danke für 70 Beiträge
Aktivitäten Langlebigkeit
5/20 16/20
Heute Beiträge
1/3 sssssss88
Re: Novag Constellation Expert with Printer required

Hello,

So a Khmelnitsky test for the super Constellation too ?

Cordially.
Mit Zitat antworten
Folgender Benutzer sagt Danke zu Mychess für den nützlichen Beitrag:
kamoj (17.05.2023)
  #7  
Alt 17.05.2023, 09:16
Tibono Tibono ist offline
TASC R30
 
Registriert seit: 22.05.2018
Ort: Frankreich
Alter: 62
Land:
Beiträge: 458
Abgegebene Danke: 2.141
Erhielt 1.108 Danke für 362 Beiträge
Aktivitäten Langlebigkeit
7/20 6/20
Heute Beiträge
1/3 ssssss458
AW: Re: Novag Constellation Expert with Printer required

 Zitat von Mychess Beitrag anzeigen
So a Khmelnitsky test for the super Constellation too ?
Maybe so, yes, as I am aware the Super Conny is a beloved one for many. I currently reached 40% of the test for the Expert, then I will need to build graphs and update my web page with the result. The Super Conny should be next.
Franz' work is a real asset to make the test more easy, fast and reliable using MessChess and the auto-setup from test positions (I got them all in a pgn file, ready to use). And of course the debug mode can also be used the same way with MessChess, as with MessExtra.
Cheers,
Eric
Mit Zitat antworten
Folgende 2 Benutzer sagen Danke zu Tibono für den nützlichen Beitrag:
Egbert (17.05.2023), kamoj (17.05.2023)
  #8  
Alt 21.05.2023, 13:59
Tibono Tibono ist offline
TASC R30
 
Registriert seit: 22.05.2018
Ort: Frankreich
Alter: 62
Land:
Beiträge: 458
Abgegebene Danke: 2.141
Erhielt 1.108 Danke für 362 Beiträge
Aktivitäten Langlebigkeit
7/20 6/20
Heute Beiträge
1/3 ssssss458
AW: Novag Constellation Expert with Printer required

Hello,
the KT test is now completed for the Constellation Expert
You can find it in this page.
Ready for the Super Constellation now... please stay tuned.
MfG
Eric
Mit Zitat antworten
Folgende 2 Benutzer sagen Danke zu Tibono für den nützlichen Beitrag:
kamoj (21.05.2023), Mychess (21.05.2023)
  #9  
Alt 22.05.2023, 13:51
Tibono Tibono ist offline
TASC R30
 
Registriert seit: 22.05.2018
Ort: Frankreich
Alter: 62
Land:
Beiträge: 458
Abgegebene Danke: 2.141
Erhielt 1.108 Danke für 362 Beiträge
Aktivitäten Langlebigkeit
7/20 6/20
Heute Beiträge
1/3 ssssss458
AW: Novag Constellation Expert with Printer required

Hi,

after 20% progress in the test for the Super Constellation, as Ivan the Terrible would voice it: 'I think, I am onto something...'

First, a highlight about the hex score encoding method: the heavy weight byte relates to pawn-units whilst the light byte relates to the decimal fraction of the score.
Code:
e.g.:
&h8100-&h8000=&h0100 which is 256 in dec. base. Divided by 256 provides 1 pawn-unit as the score. 
The figure "1" can be read directly on the right of the "8".
A 5 pawn-units score (one rook advantage) is &h8500.
Negative scores are just symetrical, -1 pawn-unit is &h7F00.
The light byte part of the score can range from &h00 to &hFF, thus 0 to 255, which is <1 once divided by 256,
therefore it stores the decimal part of the score.
Now, to the point: I noticed a blatant behavior discrepancy about the score management of the Super Constellation, compared to the Constellation Expert.

With the Expert, the score evolves in a very usual way, along with the computing time and depth reached: the light byte changes more frequently than the heavy byte. To apply a change to the heavy byte, the search needs to identify a change in the material balance, or to consider a large impact from positional change(s). Many variations within the search tree only provide small adjustments to the score, thru positional evaluation.

With the Super Constellation, the behavior follows another way: after a few seconds the score gets steady (due to the selection of the best move so far) and from then, the light byte value does not change any more. Along with the computing time and depth, the heavy byte may change (an in-depth capture being discovered), but the light weight byte is not any more changed by any positional concern. As far as I could check, it only may change along with a change in the material score, which I assume is a change in the root best move so far.

To my understanding, this reveals a PSH strictly applied either at root or at low depth in the search tree, providing a positional score per root move, followed by a material trading evaluation only for the rest of the tree search.

On another hand, the Constellation Expert is deemed to benefit from an improved positional play, and the fact is its score can be positionally refined much deeper within the search tree.

This is just all my understanding, but anyone can experiment in this field using the debug mode of the emulator; feel welcome to share your own outcomes!

Kind regards/MfG
Eric
Mit Zitat antworten
Folgende 3 Benutzer sagen Danke zu Tibono für den nützlichen Beitrag:
kamoj (22.05.2023), mclane (22.05.2023), Mychess (22.05.2023)
  #10  
Alt 22.05.2023, 15:34
Benutzerbild von Mychess
Mychess Mychess ist offline
Saitek Leonardo
 
Registriert seit: 07.03.2009
Beiträge: 88
Abgegebene Danke: 151
Erhielt 126 Danke für 70 Beiträge
Aktivitäten Langlebigkeit
5/20 16/20
Heute Beiträge
1/3 sssssss88
Re: Novag Constellation Expert with Printer required

Hello Tibono,

I think that the score is the sum of 2 parts :

material points = (@223h) with 77AB : 01 1E 03 05 03 09 , the king has a value of 30 pawns.

positionnal points = (@222h)

And so 256 positionnal points = one material point = 1 pawn = 1 :
Code:
8B21 : EE 22 02			inc	X0222
8B24 : D0 03			bne	L8B29
8B26 : EE 23 02			inc	X0223
8B29			L8B29:
I agree with your understanding.

Cordially.
Mit Zitat antworten
Folgende 3 Benutzer sagen Danke zu Mychess für den nützlichen Beitrag:
kamoj (22.05.2023), mclane (22.05.2023), Tibono (22.05.2023)
Antwort

Themen-Optionen
Ansicht

Forumregeln
Du bist nicht berechtigt, neue Themen zu erstellen.
Du bist nicht berechtigt, auf Beiträge zu antworten.
Du bist nicht berechtigt, Anhänge hochzuladen.
Du bist nicht berechtigt, deine Beiträge zu bearbeiten.

BB code ist An
Smileys sind An.
[IMG] Code ist An.
HTML-Code ist An.

Gehe zu

Ähnliche Themen
Thema Erstellt von Forum Antworten Letzter Beitrag
Tuning: Novag Constellation Expert 100 mhz mclane Partien und Turniere / Games and Tournaments 104 23.02.2024 02:03
Frage: Novag Printer voelkx Technische Fragen und Probleme / Tuning 9 30.01.2016 21:59
Frage: Novag Constellation Expert 853 Sargon Technische Fragen und Probleme / Tuning 4 31.08.2013 12:58
Frage: Spielstil des Novag Constellation Expert Blaubirne Die ganze Welt der Schachcomputer / World of chess computers 3 12.07.2012 11:11


Alle Zeitangaben in WEZ +1. Es ist jetzt 07:01 Uhr.



Powered by vBulletin (Deutsch)
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©Schachcomputer.info